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ddumont

To see some technical details, go to http://www.canofsleep.com/wwdiary/point-formula

Post the formula that works best for you!

zookeeper.harris

Awesome update. I've been wishing for decimal calculations with tenths of points. Can now say this can replace Palm WWcalc. This formula calculates USA points to the nearest tenth: round(abs((calories/50)+(fat/12)-(min(fiber,4)/5))*10)/10

Donation time!

ddumont

Thanks! Remember to list the locale the formula you are suggesting is for. And maybe what point system.

btw, I think you can drop that outer abs. It shouldn't really be doing anything

zookeeper.harris

Correct on outer abs. Hadn't thought to try without. Original post updated with that and locale.

Thanks!

MKairys

Here is the formula I use, which I think is the same as the above. I derived it from one of the sliding point calculator things.

if (fiber > 4) fiber = 4;
points = (calories - 10*fiber)/50 + fat/12

Who

starting next week calories won't count...whole new formula to be used using carbo's, protein, etc. Will need total redo.

ddumont

No, it won't need a total redo. I'll simply change the point calculation dialog. But it's not going to happen right away.

chrishel

Looking at the WW website this morning and plugging a bunch of values in, the new calculation seems to be:
(fat/3.88893) +(carbs/9.21065) +(protein/10.9373) - (fiber/12.5) = PointsPlus
Fiber has no value alone, for example, some value needs to be entered for fat/carb/protein to get an effect.

This is much different from what other sites and calculations are using because the fiber is subtracted. There's no maximum fiber like with the old formula.

I entered up to 10,000 to get these formulas and I didn't see a maximum. (I did it mostly because I like to calculate to the tenth of a point and I'm and Engineer, so I just can't help it!)

There is a note about unexpected calculations: "Sugar alcohols (ingredients commonly found in sugar-free foods) and regular alcohol are included in our PointsPlus calculations. Because these ingredients are not typically included in food labels, you might notice discrepancies between the PointsPlus values you see on our site for foods with these ingredients, and the values for these foods you get using the online calculator. Use our database for the most accurate values."

I haven't looked into this so I don't know what it means quite yet. I will have to plug some real food values in and compare it to the WW database to get an idea.

ddumont

Thanks for the help! I'm currently working on a calculator that has input for the new entries (carbs, etc)

chrishel

I forgot to add that enough fiber can bring the PP value to zero. I doubt this could happen in real life, but it looks like a pretty straight-forward formula in general.

I doubt I'll learn to do it in my head like the old points formula though!

noneroy

I hate to ask because I know you're busy but do you have an eta of when the new interface will be ready?

Also, will it be possible to drop all the stored foods in our user-created database but not drop the weight history?

PS - I just donated because I'm sure you're working hard at these changes and I appreciate it. I've also lost 40lbs thanks in part to your app. Keep up the great work!

ddumont

@noneroy, no eta yet. I am working on it though.

stanman

I just want to thank you for your r&d on this product. I'm donating. I've told everyone in my WW meeting about this product. It has met my needs for the past 6 months. Glad to have lost the pesky 30 lbs that I've picked up over the last 25 years. I'm now on maintenance. Looking forward to learning new ways to count points... NOT! But wwdiary will make it much easier; that I'm confident in.
Thanks again.

JuBug1979

I just want to say thank you so much for this app...donating definately..10 lbs down in a month..120 more to go!!! So excited!!

ddumont

chrishel said:
Looking at the WW website this morning and plugging a bunch of values in, the new calculation seems to be:
(fat/3.88893) +(carbs/9.21065) +(protein/10.9373) - (fiber/12.5) = PointsPlus
Fiber has no value alone, for example, some value needs to be entered for fat/carb/protein to get an effect.

Have you tried the one on the wiki page?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_Watchers#PointsPlus

chrishel

That's a new entry that I didn't see before. I was checking the ProPoints formula on the UK wiki entry and the other calculation that someone else posted which I think is the Australian version. Those are definitely not the same as the US PointsPlus.

This calculation seems to match pretty well, but the numbers I gave were straight from the calculator on WW e-tools. The wiki formula makes a lot more sense. I have no idea how they came up with any of these numbers. Yes, I calculated to the 5th decimal, but after a while, does it really matter in the calculation? The values for fat/carbs/fiber/protein on packaging are rounded and ones on sites like CalorieKing are to the tenth at best.

I have a spreadsheet where I'm tracking Points, PointsPlus, an simplified PP calculation, and the values from the WW e-tools. Overall, the PP calc, simplified calc, and WW values match (WW values are rounded) pretty well. But I've only been tracking for 3 days now.

As far as Points vs. PP, it seems that I am able to eat more on Points on PP (my weekly was 21 points, 29 PP). Of course fruits are free, but I'm guessing that eventually they will disclose that there will be a maximum number of fruit servings per day you can eat before you have to count. Maybe that's for the 2012 tweak.

That being said (and I'm the most negative WW person you will probably meet), more food means less weight loss, more time on WW, more money to WW, etc. Yes, WW works, I've lost a lot of weight. I've spent a lot of money on dues. But what have I really learned? My goal is to learn to eat right for the rest of my life. Not logging on e-tools, not calculating every BLT (bite/lick/taste), not counting out every pretzel, not buying WW food because it's X number of points, not fighting with my kids because they want to taste some of my food and I already counted out my portion. But that's for another post titled, "What shameful/embarrassing/crazy things have you done on WW?"!

My friend who is doing WW with me said that she's baking cookies for her holiday gifts and she's trying out new recipes so she takes a bite, tastes, and spits out the bite so she doesn't have to count it. Sadly, I completely understand the logic behind that insanity.

noneroy

@chrishel not to totally derail this thread but I understand where you are coming from. However, i don't think more points really means more food and less weight loss. The science behind the new pro-points seems to make more sense to me. I never really understood how 7 points of sweets & 7 points of steak were equal because they most certainly cannot be. I think the new points system really accounts for this. I've seen 'bad' food that I like go up in ponts and 'good' food go down in points. I think you get to eat a bit more but it seems to be of fruits and veggies. Like our group leader says, 'no one is on weight watchers because they eat too much fruit.' Our group leader was clear that there was no practical limit on fruits unless you do something silly like eat 10 bananas a day (someone did that in the UK). I guess WW studied very high sugar fruits and found that even moderately high intake of those fruits didn't negatively effect weight loss.

I've lost about 40lbs in 4 months and after a while I sort of got into 'autopilot' on the old points system and was able to guesstimate the points foods had. I also had a routine for breakfast and lunch so dinner was the only wildcard. I think the very fact they changed the system will help me get back to tracking a little closer. But I really like it so far.

I don't track every bite/lick/taste and maybe that's why tracking bugs me less. I also don't count all the incidental walking I do in the day (to/from train stops, around campus, etc). I figure they are a wash and I'm consistently down 2lbs a week. I only track things that are more than 1 bite of the same thing (so I'll take 4 or 5 'bites' out of my dinner serving if I taste while cooking).

Either way, i think we can all agree that this app is a blessing and ddumont's work is very appreciated by all of us.

@JuBug1979: You Can Do IT! And Bravo on your 10lbs down!!

SEckley

I tried using the calculation from Wikipedia and it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Of course, I could be doing it wrong. I keep getting decimals for points.

ddumont

The default one in the app now uses that formula. I was not getting decimal point values. Can you paste in here the formula you tried to enter in?

chrishel

@noneroy: Sorry! I didn't mean to derail the thread either. I agree with you. I think that as a goal we should learn moderation and re-learn portion sizes. Also think about eating better foods and learn treats are just that, treats. The Points are just a tool to get there. Unfortunately, the message I get out of the meetings I've attended are how to eat and cheat the system. In the US, they push WW foods that are low points but after the "life style change" is over (diet!) they haven't really taught us to eat better. We are just substituting the WW version sweet for the regular sweet not learning to eat sweets less.

In our meeting room, the room is lined with WW products. The whole meeting you are staring at the leader with snack foods (as most of the products are) as the backdrop and talking about food. It drives me insane which is why I search for an independent way to follow the system. (Thanks dumont for a great program that helps me do that!)

I spoke with my husband about this (he's a pediatrician) and he sees lots of overweight children whose parents say that their kids eat only fruit and healthy foods. He says the key is moderation and adding more activity into our lives.

In some ways, everything comes down to calorie counting: carbs, proteins, fat, fiber, all provide energy in differing values to our bodies.

Owejo

Will using all variables, including calories still accurately work?

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